Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999
From: donald gevers
Subject: White Pride/Culture

Quit your crying and peruse the following:

"The constitution was handed down to guide us by a bunch of those old, dead, white guys who invented this country. It's true-they were white guys. So were most of the guys who died in Lincoln's name, opposing slavery in the 1860s. So, why should I be ashamed of white guys? Why is Hispanic pride or Black pride a good thing, while White pride conjures up shaved heads and white hoods?" Charlton Heston in Time Magazine, July 6th, 1998.

My father once told me, "I may not like or agree with what another American says, but I will fight to the death to protect that right." Seems to be a pattern here from history. Check the stats from WWII, then re-read the beginning of this letter.

As far as racism and predjudice go, I was born and raised in the "projects". I know from first hand experience that the ugliness of racism and prejudice exists in the "minority" sectors just as strong as it does in white sectors. As I stated in my previous letter, don't try to judge me or figure me out unless you too are White, I would have no choice but to feel insulted.

Donald Gevers, Jr.

Letter to the Editor:

Regarding
"...we encourage the personal expression and ownership of feelings about race and whiteness in the articles and postings at this website. It is difficult, if not impossible to work under the constraints of colorblind rhetoric when talking about issues of color. So, we encourage use the terms "I," "we," and "our" where needed to describe the racial experience of the writers. Writers of color have long made use of this convention when articulating their perspectives. We encourage white Americans to do the same."

I discovered your site yesterday, and find it interesting. I am considering joining your group. I take issue, however, with your suggested method of expressing "ownership of feelings" about being white. Although the use of "us" and "them" may assist one in establishing a group identity, it most decidedly does not reflect the reality of one's individuality, nor might it accurately relfect one's group or family identity. White American is a color and nationality, but not necessarily an identity.

When anybody injects the pronoun "we" in a coversation about issues, I become immediately suspicious. The speaker presumes s/he is representing a group, and this in itself is a clouding of the speaker's identity, as well as a denial of the individuality of the members of the group that the speaker presumes to represent. During my fifty-seven years of white life, I may have had twenty close friends who were white, but cannot think of one who felt as I did or thought as I did on any particular issue. So who would I be talking about if I were to speak of me and my white friends as "we?"

Although currently residing in San Francisco, I am a Texas Border person, so my life has been spent in the presence of Latinos - Xicanos and Mexicans - and most of the people who currently form a real part of my life are not Whanglos at all. Some are white, some are tan, and some are tanner than others. If I were to use the word "we," I would more than likely be referring to me and Nati, Juan and Viviana, and the use of the word "we" would have to refer to some simple act that we engaged in together. I could safely say, for example, that "we are going to the Festival of San Lorenzo."

When my niece, Amalia, says "We Arzabes are like that, you know," she is referring to what she considers a family trait of being hot-tempered. But by no means would she presume to speak for all Mexicans or all residents of the State of Chihuahua, and, she knows as well as I do that, in reality, all Arzabes are "not really like that."

Although I appreciate the intention of making people "own" and "feel" their whiteness, I feel that some of the most dangerous and erroneous statements include the words "we," "us," "them," and "they."

Generally, I think your site offers very valuable insights and explorations of racial problems and solutions, but I would like some less error-prone method of owning my whiteness than using the word "we" when I might be referring to me and Richard Nixon and George Bush and Charles Manson and Adolf Hitler and Soupy Sales and Ernesto Zedillo and Julio Iglesias. "We" may all be white, but that's pretty much the beginning and end of our common experience.

Any other suggestions to help me own my whiteness?

Ramiro Lopez

Editor's Note: 'Us' and 'Them': A note on writing style. (May 1996) is an editorial located here on our web site. It is a brief statement of the need to speak personally about issues of whiteness and white American culture.

PATRICK
I am a straight…white…male…with Irish Catholic roots. I grew up in an all-white Long Island, N Y neighborhood. Geographically and culturally I was isolated from cultures different from my own.

My first impression of people of color came from the television. The first Mexican I knew was a cartoon mouse named Speedy Gonzales. The only Indians I knew were the savage one's John Wayne killed or the caricatures of "F-Troop". Green Hornet's sidekick- Kato- gave me the impression that most Asians knew karate.

My first impression of African-Americans changed my life. I remember being in the living room with my father watching our 19" black & white Zenith. Martin Luther King was marching to Washington with thousands of other African Americans. As a six-year-old they scared me because I felt they were angry with all white people, including six-year-old white boys. So, out of fear and ignorance, I began to build the wall. The wall that would protect me from the people who do not like me.

As I got older, the wall got higher. Two kids switch from speaking English to Spanish when I walk into the room--time to work on the wall.

The reserved nature of Asians I perceived as a rejection of me--throw on a couple of more bricks on the wall.

The Catholic Church says homosexuals will burn in hell-which inspires me to get a ladder to make my wall higher.

By the time I turned thirty my wall was 10 feet tall and the only people I saw were people like me---or so I thought.

It was then that I discovered many of the people I had been trying to hide from had a secret passageway to my side. They walked and talked like me, but had something more. A certain richness of character that I lacked. When I asked them one of them where can I get some of this richness he brought me to a small hole in the wall. When I looked through I saw millions of people of different shapes and sizes with their families of origin. They had their own walls separating them, but theirs were only three feet high and easily crossed.

I saw more passion, drive, laughter and family pride than I ever experienced. There was a bond between all of them that I wanted to share in. I was told that if I wanted to be a part of this I would have to lower my wall.

Inspired, I ran to get my ladder, hammer and chisel. Climbed up on the ladder and started banging away. It felt pretty good to overcome my fears until I made a discovery that made my heart break.

Its seems that while I was building my wall to keep others out another wall had been built--- to keep me in. I believe the message of equality that people of color, women and homosexuals have been sending white males is slowly sinking in. It has been a slow and painful waking up process for me.

Oppression: unjust or cruel exercise of power or authority. It is also could be mental distress or depression. Wouldn't it depress you if you belonged to the group responsible for the majority of hate in the United States?

Many times I want to go back to being ignorant and detached because the realization that the group I belong to is responsible for bringing so much pain to so many people it almost too much for me. I have to "shut down".

My name is Patrick, just a six-year-old white kid from NY, and I am a reflection of you.

Greetings,

I want to register my great pleasure with the editors of this important website. Not only is it educational, but it also offers an opportunity for organizations to seriously consider the advantages of a multiracial rather than a multicultural perspective.

It is so refreshing, inspiring and hopeful that such an organization seems to have such clarity. I certainly hope you are getting enough business to stay afloat and prosper. I will be contacting you later to find out your fees for a three hour workshop, and promise to tell my friends about your services.

Most Sincerely,

Helan Enoch Page
Associate Professor of Anthropology
___________________________
There is no transcendence other than our intimacy with the unknown as the unknown. Seeking it is avoiding it. It is everlastingly present in an ever present genesis.
--Carlo Suarez, 1992--

Editor's Note: Our Learning How to Talk About Whiteness is a soft, sensitive and proven to be effective introduction to a hard topic.

Hello,
I just want to refer you to a book I just published with University of Chicago Press. It's called White Slaves, African Masters: An Anthology of Barbary Captivity Narratives. It's a collection of narratives by primarily white authors who are captured and held in North Africa. These narratives played a large and important role in the abolition movement and were best sellers in their day. It's received favorable reviews from the London Times and the Washington Post as well as Library Journal and Amazon.com. It was released in May.

All best,
Paul Baepler, Ph.D.

Jeff,
Has anyone explained to you people that "white" people formed and developed this country and if you take that away from these creators the country will cease to exist. Has anyone explained the 2000 years of European culture, choices, and struggles has lead to this very successful, fair, and giving country and that this is an achievement very few other "races" has accomplished. Has anyone told you people that the rights given to minorities in this European country was given by "whites" and not earned nor deserved but given out of grace and respect for fellow man.

"The Center" sounds more like a Heavens Gate cult bent on suicide via ignorance. Not giving respect to hard earned cultural values of "white" people will and has already, destroy this country. You cannot be so ignorant as to not drive down any US city and see the destruction of 3rd world cultures. Is this what you people strive for, it is what you will get. Perhaps it would be a better cause to focus on your own self hurts and stop being an activist drawing the entire country into a small group of people's personal bents and problems.

-Cal

Letter to the Editor:
I congratulate you for your efforts in starting this website. You have hit upon the one missing link in all the discussions of race relations. Anyone who is a person of color wish to diminish the contributions of white America but, we had no idea how to get out of the stalemate this country has found itself in. There is a lot of invaluable information on this website that should help all peoples to understand, not only themselves, but the white culture. I think that is what has been missing, whites understanding in open discussion the priviliges and benefits they enjoy just for being white and discovering in open and honest debate, the contributions others have made in making this country great. And, it is all done in a non-confrontational manner. I applaud your efforts. It is time for everyone to respect the other for who we are. Thank you for compiling the articles and getting this site going.

hpy4u

Dear Editor,
I came across your site while I've been searching for websites that may enlighten my understanding of the current reality of American dominant culture and my reality of being Asian-American in the U.S..

I started questioning the virtue of my assimilation into "American" culture because I've been challenged by my white friends recently to answer some of their questions regarding my personality. I had no idea that their few questions would lead to my identity crisis, but after wrestling with my initial anger and shock, I came to realize that I had to address "multiculturalism" in order to give any substantial answer.

My Asian-American friends and White American friends have the exactly opposite perception of me. I am Korean-American married to a Chinese-American in a white protestant church. My Asian-American friends think I am counter-cultural, radical, outgoing, engaging and talkative. My white friends think otherwise.

I was so shocked to find out that my white friends thought of me as aloof, anti-social, non-commital and timid.

I was at first extremely angry that my white friends would use "white" standards or methods to categorize me, but I realized I was only angry because I assumed that they should use my standards and methods just like my Asian-American friends would.

So, I mentioned to my white friends that we have cultural differences. Their reaction to the words "Cultural" or "racial" differences surprised me even more. They were completely ignorant of the fact that they are white, whatever that means. They would challenge me to define what that means or how they are white. They confuse whiteness to mean upper-middle class behavior or suburban values. We all live in New York City where all the whites are not "traditionally" white.

I don't like to use the word European-American because the recent immigrants from Europe would like to distinguish themselves from Americans, white or not. And I have friends who are white and American but their European ancestors immigrated to the middle east first or to South Africa, then their children came to the U.S..

Well, of course, any ethnic group or racial group would have diverse sub-cultures in themselves. But that's precisely why, in my mind, white Americans sought directly or undirectly a sense of solidarity. When you have a group of people who are diverse, even if your skin color or the origin is the same, how else would you seek unity of that group in the face of other minority groups who make you aware that you're not black or yellow, etc.? And what better way is there to promote unity other than the color of your skin? (Rightly or wrongly)

I think it is even true that Europeans don't have to change as much as Asians or Africans, etc, culturally to fit into American dominant culture. Because the founding fathers & settlers, or the invited invadors, who set the system came from Europe. Different rate and method of industrialization ,among others, made American dominant culture different from any other European nation's culture, but it's still largely true that there is a common bond that can't be denied.

It makes me sad that my white American friends, however diverse they may be, don't see that there is still yet a greater unity among them, personally and systemically, that shapes our dominant culture.

And I'm torn as I struggle to fish out what values I should keep and discard from my own culture and from the dominant white American culture. There are many components of Korean culture that I'd like to disown, of course, and I would not encourage anyone to allow some of the "bad" elements of Korean culture in the U.S. just as we should not allow forced genital mutilation.

I understand that it would be quite controversial to discuss which elements to keep or chuck from each ethnic culture in the U.S., but I think it may be wise to start with the dominant white American culture first as is relevant to the majority of American citizens and to the minorities who are doubly oppressed from the "bad" elements of the dominant culture.

Christine Kang-Hui
Brooklyn, NYC

Having a little free time at work today I decided to execute a web search on "white".

The "white" was referring to myself . I am of European ancestry . I found it curious that at my age (47years) people of my own race and those of a race other then my own still refer to me as "white". I have been asking myself for sometime in this age of political correctness why has this labeling lingered.

I have grown up thinking of people from or of African ancestry to be "negro's, colored, black" and now "African-Americans". The same holds true about Asian-Americans or Latin-Americans. The proof of what I say is all around you, printed in the newspapers, the weekly magazines. You hear it spoken on the radio and by the television commentators. Even those of another race have spoken it to my face, usually with no malice but all the same it really bugs me deep down inside. Why? Because, if your going to refer to me with respect to my parent's origin, I'm a European-American !!!

So maybe the question should really be why has the European-American put up with this insensitivity for so long. I think it is because the European-American has been conditioned by the media to accept this degrading name calling as the norm.

Ask yourself, would an African-American be offended should you refer to him or her as a "negro"? Don't know for sure? Give it a try, find out for yourself. If it has been decided that the citizens of this country are to be cataloged by his or her ethnic origin then lets get it right for everyone. As for myself, I'm just an every day plain American.

I think the addition of Michael Bradley's The Ice-Man Inheritance to your Anthropology reference section would serve your site well. He, in my opinion, is the only white social scientist who has seriously examined the motivation of white racism (which he feels is also connected to the motivation of sexist behavior on the part of white males), and makes the white minority domination of the world understandable from a pathological frame of reference. (Not as a reflection of intellectual superiority, as it is usually reflected.)

Thomas and Sillings' Racism and Psychiatry would be an excellent addition to your Psychology reference section, as it documents the racist ideological undercurrents in the thinking of many of the renowned white scholars in the mental health arena, as well as how the mental health field has acted as an arm of racist ideology. And Carlos Moore's "Were Marx and Engels White Racists?" demonstrates how the fathers of European socialism didn't escape the racist socialization of their culture of origin. You can publish or not publish this commentary; I'm more concerned re the updating of your references.

Not in Our Town
On this site you can find stories of individuals who are standing up to hate and intolerance in their communities. This companion site features a campaign toolkit offering a model for community response to hate and intolerance, a brief history of activism in the United States, teacher resources, discussion guides, and more.
Go to: http://www.pbs.org/niot/

MORE THOUGHTS ON WHY THE SYSTEM OF WHITE PRIVILEGE IS WRONG
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/whitefolo.htm

A version of this essay ran in the Perspective section of the Baltimore Sun on July 4, 1999. It is a follow-up to an essay on the same subject that ran in July 1998, "White Privilege Shapes the U.S" (http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/whiteprivilege.htm)
copyright Robert William Jensen 1999

by Robert Jensen
Department of Journalism
University of Texas
Austin, TX 78712
work: (512) 471-1990
rjensen@uts.cc.utexas.edu
rjensen@uts.cc.utexas.edu

Jensen is a professor in the Department of Journalism in the University of Texas at Austin. He can be reached at rjensen@uts.cc.utexas.edu.

Editor's Note: Prof. Jensen enclosed the full text of his article (between 1,500 and 2,000 words). For the sake of brevity, we have omitted the text and refer readers to the link above.

Dear Friends,
I like the concept of your web site, and I enjoyed reading the abstracts from the Berkeley Conference.

I am a member of the New Jersey Commission on Holocaust education, and the President of the irish Famine Curriculum Committee. I also attended the White House Conference on Hate Crimes two years ago. Back in the mid-seventies, I marched against racism in Boston with Coretta Scott King, Dr. Ralph Abernathy and Roy Wilkins.

I wonder if you would consider linking to our Irish Famine curriculum on the web site of the Nebraska Department of Education: Irish Famine This site includes a large section on colonial racism, including numerous cartoons. The first four pages document the British role in the Atlantic slave trade, while highlighting contemporaneous events in British-ruled Ireland. It is an eye-opener, believe me. Check out the quote by W.E. B. DuBois at the begining.

All the Best,
James Mullin

I thought you might be interested in this new historical link at: http://www.eyesofglory.com/ that describes a multi-ethnic family since the early part of American history.

Keith Stokes
Newport, Rhode Island

There is a book that you might want to add to your library. It is titled "Gente Decente" : a borderlands response to the rhetoric of Dominance. The author is Leticia M. Garza-Falcon, publisher, University of Texas Press, Austin, 1998. Among other things, the author tells how the Anglo-centered history has affected the Mexican-American people of Texas.

Thanks, Kathy Camacho, Kansas City, KS

As you examine the nature of whiteness, consider the following.

At any time, has your arrival on any continent been a positive development for the native inhabitants? At any time, has your presence brought anything other than destruction, war, and genocide?  When you arrived in North America, there were an estimated 25 million native inhabitants.  Were are they now?  More than 20 million vanished.  And to slake your thirst for slaves, an estimated 60 - 75 million Africans were slaughtered in the process of acquiring your slave labor force.  That's 80 million dead, and their blood is on your hands.

Violence is your legacy. Whiteness is violence.  Whiteness is hatred, despair, and genocide.  Whites are clearly the only race without a shred of human decency -- more like a jackal than a man.

Your history proves that you are incapable of justice.  Your history is a drunken trail of blood.  Apple trees do not change and begin growing oranges.  And so it is with you.  You will never be more than the jackal you are.

Ari Sjani

i'm starting off by saying i am a half white-half hispanic high school student in Maine. Living here in an almost all-white neighborhood (we have about 4 kids of color total including me) i see tons of acts of racism. It seems like everyone has something negative to add to the already out of hand situation. I want to tell you that the editorial: "what kind of white person are you" is an extremely insightful and true article. I found it precise and interesting, and it explains my thoughts and views perfectly. I have these views and have had for a while...but i didn't know how to word myself when trying to explain myself to my parents or friends. Many people believe that all races are treated the same and there is no difference...(the colorblind) but the truth is, there is a big difference in the social structure, power, wealth, and living style in every culture. I feel that whites do have an overpowering rule over other races here in the United States. When i explain this to my mother she comes at me sayin I'm the racist one but she doesnt understand that race DOES matter here. Everyone isnt the same like how she believes and everyone will never be equal as i believe. There will always be hatred here. The only thing to do is improve this situation, i dont think it can be healed. Also i found that the music i listen to is my way to channel my thoughts out to people. it sends a great message that should be taken seriously by every nationality. Well, just letting you know that i appreciate the time taken on the editorial and i look forward to seeing more like it. Stay Positive....

My name is Choyin Rangdrol. I am an African American with a website dedicated to Buddhist people of color. We are currently advancing information about racial bias by Buddhist white people towards people of color.

I've been following your site and find it refreshing. Would you mind if I offered some of your writing on our message board.

Visit: http://www.rainbowdharma.com/

Attached is our commentary.

Let me know if there is some way we can work together. Also, feel free to send my webmaster your link information.

Regards,
Choyin Editor's Note: For the commentary referenced above, please refer to http://www.rainbowdharma.com/.

Although I'm sure you have noble intentions, re-inventing the sixties perhaps, I doubt that you realize the harm you are doing to European-Americans. I have encountered too many white Americans who are ashamed to be white, or disgraced to be American because of the anti-white propaganda spewed out by groups such as yours. Perhaps you could take the time to answer a couple of questions that have yet to be answered by anti-European groups such as yours:
1) You claim that racism is the oppression of minorities by European culture, yet you never answer how whites acquired this "power" in the first place. How is it that one group is able to dominate and oppress the other if we all are inherently the same, even when outnumbered, as in the case of the former South Africa? Furthermore, doesn't your assertion that only whites are racists demonstrate that ethnic groups are inherently different from each other, at least in the fact that only whites are born with with innate desire to subjugate and oppress other racial groups?
2) Groups such as yours blame white racism for discrepancies between racial groups, yet how do you explain the fact that the Negro race has accomplished more and enjoyed a higher standard of living while in predominately white societies? What achievements out of Africa rival that of a Booker T. Washington here in America? If white racism is the problem, then black separatism seems to be the answer, yet I don't see any blacks pursuing this objective. Places like Haiti should thrive, but they don't. Also, look what happened to countries like Rhodesia when the blacks took power away from the "evil white man". Furthermore, current birth rates of minorities coupled with a high immigration rate that is almost exclusively non-white is rapidly turning European-Americans into a minority group. If your theories are correct, this should be a better place to live when whites are no longer a majority. I doubt, however, that this will be the case. Perhaps you can give me an example of one such country?

I would appreciate a response to these questions as well as a posting of this letter, since groups such as yours like to shoot down straw men in the form of uneducated rednecks to validate your claims.

D.F. Cook
Emmett, Idaho

Dear Friends, The just completed update to the Chronology on the History of Slavery and Racism is now available for reference and research You are welcome to refer and/or link to them. The Chronologies include comprehensive footnoted entries from archival, and secondary source documents including links to full text Internet sites. This research is a by-product of the independent research into the Smithsonian Institution's oldest building in Washington, DC, the Holt House. Among other research elements, the Chronology includes details on the integral role played by slavery in the formation of the Nations Capital and political system. Spans period from 1619 to the present. 1619-1789 http://innercity.org/holt/slavechron.html 1790-1829 http://innercity.org/holt/chron_1790_1829.html 1830-the end http://innercity.org/holt/chron_1830_end.html Use your browsers search command. Researched and compiled by Eddie Becker ebecker@cni.org

White America must acknowledge at some point that racism always has been a "white'' problem. It was invented in Europe to justify the subjectation of others for the cause of expansion and and it is deeply ingrained in white culture at a subconsiouss level. "White" sociologist in the past have done exhaustive studies on the effects of racism on various "minorities" (on a worldwide scale the only true ''minorities'' would be Anglo-europeans and the fear of this fact is at the heart of racist motivation) but they never seem to look at the very root cause of the problem -''white'' people.

I have no doubt you probably receive lots of hate mail from angry white people. But the fact that you have created this organization and this website shows that your fighting the good fight and perhaps it will shed some light onto a subject that White Americans invent, practice, utilize then deny and sublimate -racism.

Dear Morons,
Racial separation is the only answer.

If whites are lost and without an identity, why? What caused it? How did they get in this situation? IMMIGRATION, perhaps?

Keep your race pure.

Your words about racists is slander. I am a racist. I am in fact a white separatist. By the way, I am also a white supremacist, because I believe the term "white supremacist" means that I believe that whites are supreme.

Of course, perspective is everything.

The Amegroid thing is the most rediculous thing I have ever seen.

Multicultural and Multiracial society must be eliminated if we are to survive.

I am WHITE! I am a European-American. They are synonyms.

The endless flatulations on this web site are beyond reproach. I find your web site extremely offensive and denigrating. All of this is hardly worse than the anti-white media, education system, and culture(yes, the prime directive of American culture is anti-white).

You are merely trying to collect the minds of timid whites and help them in a way to oppose their own kind.

But I have to say, the "Racist or Colorblind" article is a good one. Racist to me merely means that I look out for my own people and promote my own kind --AND YES, AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS!

I am a white racist. My race is superior. If you cannot understand you need to try harder. Everything must be borne around existence. That is why I do not like you.

Keep the white race pure. The only way is racial separation. This can be accomplished by force, if necessary. And bloodshed. And war. But hey, I would love to see it brought about voluntarily.

P.S. - I'd like to conspire with the Bio-Chemistry student. His idea is a good one.

Dear Webmaster:
Hello. I am Assistant Editor at Public Affairs Information Service, Inc., publisher of the definitive bibliographic and full-text database of the literature of public affairs -- current issues and actions that affect communities, countries, and governments worldwide. PAIS covers material originally published in English, German, Spanish, French, Italian, and Portuguese.

I am writing today for three reasons:
1) to let you know that PAIS has posted a link to your site for our most recent Hot Topic, hate crimes -- please see http://www.pais.org/hottops/Fall99/WEBcrime.htm
2) to ask whether your organization objects to our site's link to yours, and
3) to request and encourage reciprocal links.

Please reply to this letter to respond to any of the above. If we receive no response, we'll assume you don't object to the link to your site.

Thank you very much for your attention.

Sincerely,
Stacey Chambers
Assistant Editor,
Public Affairs Information Service, Inc.
New York, NY

Dear Sir Or Madam,
I am interested in what I see as racism in day to day life. I decided to check out the internet looking for other peoples thoughts on the subject and found this site. I read the "Definition of Racism". I was unpleasantly surprised to see that it is a very biased definition. Apparently only white people can be Racists. I seriously question the validity of this assumption.

I feel strongly that any results based on this assumption will be so flawed as to be totally unreliable. Just thought I would bring this concern to your attention and maybe get some clarification as to how you could overlook all of the other examples of racism that history has to offer.

Sincerely,
Steve